Am I crazy? 

"fourvalleys" (fourvalleys) 11/14/2015 at 09:26 • Filed to: None

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I want to trade my BRZ for a Fiesta ST. Hear me out...

I picked up my BRZ two years ago tomorrow. I had just been T-boned in my CR-Z and I needed a car pretty quickly. The Honda had 23,000 miles on it, and I wasn’t interested in replacing it with something used. The BRZ was my third choice.

My first choice was a WRX, but multiple dealers told me there were zero new manual WRX (or STi) hatchbacks in the entire country. They were happy to put an order in for a new WRX sedan, if I could wait four months for delivery. No.

My second choice was a Fiesta ST. I couldn’t even find one to test drive, as they’d just come out. I think most of them out there at the time were the first few orders being delivered. I did drive a Focus ST, but I wasn’t a fan of the upright seating position and the Recaros are tough for a big dude. It appealed to me as a fun, sporty hatchback and I figured the Fiesta would be the same.

Now, I’ve had the opportunity to drive a few Fiesta ST’s. They really are brilliant little cars. I like them more than I could have guessed.

Based on the condition of my BRZ, I should have no problem finding a base Fiesta ST and trading plus about $1.5-2.5k out of pocket (once I sell some parts). I save a lot on tax by trading in rather than selling outright, and the trade-in offers I’ve gotten have been pretty much in-line with what I expected.

Now, this isn’t really a sudden thing. I had planned on having a deposit down on a Focus RS. But I realized $40k for a Focus (even that one) is a lot less appealing than a $20k Fiesta plus almost $20k left in my pocket. Odds are that leftover money goes to a dedicated track car (Miata, E46, Honda). I’m a pretty boring driver on the street and I’m not tracking a DD anymore.

Pros:

- I can get the car I originally wanted

- I gain some more torque! And a ridiculously fun little turbo.

- I’m a hatchback person. Not sure why, but coupes and sedans just don’t really do it for me. I assume it’s the same reason we all love wagons - sporty, but it can still haul a bunch of stuff when you need it.

- I gain a usable backseat! This doesn’t really matter, I’ve used the BRZ backseat a few times and it’s been tight but usable. The CR-Z didn’t have a back seat, and I daily drove a Miata before (with the passenger seat removed). Actually, my old Mini has a bigger backseat.

- New car! Always exciting.

Push:

- Reliability/build quality. I haven’t had any issues with the BRZ, but it doesn’t feel high quality at all. I get that that’s the point in terms of lightweight pplastics and limited features, but I’m talking more about stuff like the problems the platform has on every car: Chirping fuel pump, condensation in the taillights, questionable synchros wearing quickly. Nothing has broken, but it always kind of feels like something might. With the Fiesta... it’s probably a similar ballgame. Cheap interior, lightweight fun.

Cons:

- No more RWD! Snow fun gets a little bit less fun.

- The 2016 Fiesta ST color selection. Three very boring colors, and two premium colors I like - but $600 extra.

- The seating position. Liveable but not really sporty!

- I lose out on the looks of the BRZ. Yummy.

- I need to find something to fulfill my track day fix! I wouldn’t track the Fiesta. Fortunately I have access to a Legends car, but I want something that’s less scary on a long straightaway.

- I’d be taking a pretty big financial hit on the BRZ. It’s not really about the money, though - like I said. Really, I probably save money in the long run since I’m so tempted to put money into parts for the BRZ.

So, am I crazy?

 V8 Rustler > fourvalleys 11/14/2015 at 09:32

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Don’t fall for the ST hype.

Buy a car with RWD or AWD drivetrain.

Opposite Locksmith > fourvalleys 11/14/2015 at 09:37

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Get a WRX.

Captain of the Enterprise > fourvalleys 11/14/2015 at 09:42

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I don't think it's a bad idea but why not try a wrx again since it was your first choice?

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > fourvalleys 11/14/2015 at 09:44

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Keep the Subie if its impracticalities are not getting in the way. There are little things you can do to make it way better, Have you found out how to turn the media display screen off? It’s like muscle memory for me when I get in the car now. You can get an actual proper OEM center console armrest from Europe that’s perfect. The Nameless exhaust is fantastic as well. I actually might be selling mine, but only because of the impracticality of it. I need a car with more space and I like my MR2 better, so the BRZ’s gotta go.

Tareim - V8 powered > fourvalleys 11/14/2015 at 09:44

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I would say the seating position is far more ‘sporty’ in the BRZ than the Fiesta, to me it’s a crazy decision to swap from the BRZ to the Fiesta as the BRZ has to be the best car I have driven to date

fourvalleys > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 11/14/2015 at 09:46

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My nav screen is usually off, and the OEM armrest is the one part I’m trying to figure out how to sell if I do get rid of the car. The armrest is actually my favorite thing I’ve added to the car - it’s fantastic.

jjhats > fourvalleys 11/14/2015 at 09:47

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You won’t regret it I can almost guarantee it. I know this because there are multiple frs guys on the focus and I fiesta forums who traded over to the fords. I haven’t seen any people switch from st to brz. I attribute this to the rwd syndrome. And also is 1500 a big financial hit for you? That’s a small price to pay for a new car. I would recommend going used however as ford depreciate much faster than toyotas do and it will minimize the ammount if any that you lose on the trade. Orange is a fantastic color same as blue black and red and white. Basically green sucks imo other colors are awesome. Life’s too short to drive the same car for 2 years if your not completely in love with it. A car being rwd is a stupid reason to stick with a lackluster engine and dreadful yes dreadful interior.

fourvalleys > Captain of the Enterprise 11/14/2015 at 09:47

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I don’t want a sedan. I can’t justify the additional cost for something I don’t want.

fourvalleys > Opposite Locksmith 11/14/2015 at 09:47

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Perhaps I should have emphasized more than I did - I don’t want a sedan.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > fourvalleys 11/14/2015 at 09:49

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How are you going to sell it? That will leave exposed holes unless you have a different one. This is mine:

fourvalleys > Tareim - V8 powered 11/14/2015 at 09:53

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I agree on the seating position, maybe my wording was a but clumsy.

I’d agree about keeping the BRZ if I wasn’t planning on buying a dedicated track day car. It’s hard to justify it, especially due to the temptation to spend money on the BRZ. The whole point of the car is that it’s a fantastic starting point for upgrades - if you’re not spending money on upgrades, it’s a much different car. Still very good, though.

For the record, I was happier with the CR-Z for what it was than I have been with the BRZ. Don’t misinterpret that though, the CR-Z was just a commuter and it was very good at it and more fun than it gets credit for.

fourvalleys > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 11/14/2015 at 09:54

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Like I said, I’m trying to figure out exactly how to sell it. Essentially the only way is to swap the entire center console. That’s not too bad of a process, and I’ve got a few friends interested.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > fourvalleys 11/14/2015 at 09:56

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Yeah, if you have friends who want it, just swap the entire console. It’s not too bad.

Tareim - V8 powered > fourvalleys 11/14/2015 at 09:59

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I guess people have different expectations for the cars and what they are doing, I daily drive mine and is used as a commuter vehicle, I couldn’t deal with having a boring car for that as when the traffic clears up I can have a quick blast down the road for a little fun

fourvalleys > jjhats 11/14/2015 at 10:01

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I don’t think I said the price difference is a big one. I’ve got no hesitation about the price - it’s about the cars themselves.

Anyway, I don’t think I’d want a used Fiesta. There’s one near me for $14.5k - I’d actually make money on the trade- but it has 49k miles. I’ve seen some in the $17k range with 30k miles and about $18-19k with 10-12k miles.

A new one with no options is about $20.3k after incentives. It’s worth the price difference to me to get a new one. Plus, Sync 3 is a solid upgrade. Like I said though, it isn’t really about the money. This whole conversation is the result of me not buying a $37k Focus RS.

fourvalleys > Tareim - V8 powered 11/14/2015 at 10:05

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The Fiesta is the same, though. You get more torque, but lose RWD. It’s still a riot to drive.

A lot of people say it’s the best handling FWD car they’ve ever driven. I don’t disagree. The Fiesta ST is a bit slow than the BRZ, sure. It does feel less sporty (mostly thanks to the seating position, I think). But it's still fun. Since I’m not taking it to the track, it doesn’t really matter to me that it’s FWD. It only matters for ice racing and for autocross. And the Fiesta ST is quite capable of doing well at both.

jjhats > fourvalleys 11/14/2015 at 10:34

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Then this part is what’s confusing me:

I’d be taking a pretty big financial hit on the BRZ. It’s not really about the money, though

boxrocket > fourvalleys 11/14/2015 at 10:45

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Get the FiST.

fourvalleys > jjhats 11/14/2015 at 10:54

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Ah. I’m just acknowledging that it doesn’t make financial sense to sell a car after two years. It’s a big depreciation hit. Don’t worry, it’s paid for and I’m comfortable with it.

Hiroku > fourvalleys 11/14/2015 at 11:26

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Yeah, I’m pretty sure that can only get worse as the years go by? Unless these somehow end up as highly-coveted collector’s items in 15-20 years, but considering they sell in high numbers, I can’t see that happening.

brjklein >  V8 Rustler 11/14/2015 at 11:32

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You ever driven one? If you have, you’d understand it’s not hype.

fourvalleys > Hiroku 11/14/2015 at 11:32

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Sure, but you take the biggest hit the day you drive off the lot. The total value has decreased a lot more in the first two years than it will in the next two. In other words, I’m paying more per month of ownership by selling it now than I would if I kept it another year.

brjklein > fourvalleys 11/14/2015 at 11:40

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As car people, we’re never happy until we’re happy. If that’s the car you wanted all along, get it. Now, even more background:

I had a 5spd E36M3 convertible before I decided I needed something usable for 3 people (at that time, my son was just about to be born).

I test-drove the Focus ST. Didn’t like the shifter position and thought it was more suited for straight-line. Then I test drove the Fiesta ST. It felt nimble, and at once both docile and on the edge. Then I test drove the FR-S. Maybe it was the summer heat that day, but a black interior that felt claustrophobic wasn’t going to suit me (nor a baby seat in the back). Finally, I test drove a Veloster. Felt chintzy.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/brklein…

I ended up coming back to the Fiesta ST and bought it. After a year + a few days (Nov. 1 was the 1-year mark), I have zero serious regrets. The only thing I’d say is consider smaller wheels/tires and/or coil-overs. The ride quality on CA’s pock-marked roads and highways at least is awful.

All this said, have you considered a new ‘15 on the lot? You get discounts and the color you want (although you may miss out on Sync 3).

jariten1781 > fourvalleys 11/14/2015 at 11:54

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No, you’re not crazy. I cross shopped them both back in 2013 and ended up in the FiST.

Seriously they’re both good cars. I’ve got lots of wheel time in a BRZ and it would have been fine as well. It’s really a preference case...there’s not really a right or wrong answer here.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > fourvalleys 11/14/2015 at 11:56

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I wanted a BRZ. But after three separate test drives, I liked it less each time. Ever one I drove, the back stepped out on me without provocation. Now, the could be I do not know how to drive RWD vehicle properly. But it would have been my DD, and I do not want to deal with that aspect of the car just trying to get to work.

I did not like the FiST. The seating felt wrong, and I did not fit or like the Recaros. And the turbo hit once you shifted into 2nd made me feel like I was just along for the ride.

In the end I went a different direction. More on that later.

fourvalleys > jariten1781 11/14/2015 at 12:19

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I mean, it’s just a car. As long as it doesn’t break constantly, it’s no big deal either way. I’ve got other toys - I even considered my folks’ Accord V6 for awhile. I guess we’ll see!

fourvalleys > brjklein 11/14/2015 at 12:20

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Honestly, there aren’t too many new 2015 models left around here. The ones I did find generally had different options than what I wanted. I’m not paying $800 for a sunroof or navigation.

In general though, I’d prefer it with Sync 3. It’s a bit uglier, but so much slicker to use.

jjhats > fourvalleys 11/14/2015 at 12:33

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Solution: always buy used

Captain of the Enterprise > fourvalleys 11/14/2015 at 14:24

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Fair enough, I don't see why not then.

Chasaboo > fourvalleys 11/14/2015 at 14:47

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Spend money, dude. You’ve got to help keep this economy hot!

Dusty Ventures > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 11/14/2015 at 20:33

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Mostly unrelated, I’m finally getting a Nameless catback. Looking forward to that boxer rumble, even though it’s going to ruin my sleeper status

Dusty Ventures > fourvalleys 11/14/2015 at 20:35

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I’d wager the Fiesta would actually be faster than the BRZ at ice racing. I know it’s quicker on a rally stage.

SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie > Dusty Ventures 11/15/2015 at 10:30

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Did you already order it? I might be selling my Subie in a few weeks, and will be taking the axleback 5” off. You don’t get much rumble, but it definitely sounds a billion times better. I capped off the intake sound tube when I did it.

Dusty Ventures > SidewaysOnDirt still misses Bowie 11/15/2015 at 15:54

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I’ve ordered it, but haven’t paid yet, Jason’s sending me an invoice when it’s ready. I have an Outback XT, so yours probably wouldn’t fit my car anyway ;) (Also, I’m going for the 4”. Five inches is too much for me to handle)

 V8 Rustler > brjklein 11/18/2015 at 18:47

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No need to drive one, as FWD is not good in any car.

brjklein >  V8 Rustler 11/18/2015 at 19:39

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Someone much smarter than you once said, “Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.”

 V8 Rustler > brjklein 11/18/2015 at 19:57

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I’m glad you like your car, but I cannot stand FWD driving dynamics. I have yet to drive a Fiesta ST, but I’ve driven a Golf GTI, regarded as the one of the best hot hatches, and didn’t like it at all. I see no fun in torque steer in WOT in 1st gear, not being able to power slide, etc.

I have not driven a FiST, but sat in one at the dealership, and the driving position , at least with the Recaros, is BAD.It’s like sitting in an office chair, where your legs are not extended, and also the pedals are not centered.

As I said, I’m glad you’re happy with your car, but I don’t like it.

brjklein >  V8 Rustler 11/18/2015 at 22:36

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My car isn’t the focus anymore. You stated, plainly:

No need to drive one, as FWD is not good in any car.

That statement makes you look like a fool.